> ## Content Index > Fetch the complete content index at: https://www.foxwizard.com/llms.txt > Use this file to discover other available public pages before exploring further. # 🏮 e4 // A shaman & a wizard talk magic ⛲︎ - URL: https://www.foxwizard.com/e4/ - Published: 2024-12-30T10:12:30.000Z - Updated: 2026-05-15T01:47:14.000Z - Description: Adventures beyond the rational. ✨ - Author: Dr. Jason Fox - Tags: podcast, fox magic, Season 1, Episode 4 ![](https://storage.ghost.io/c/bf/97/bf97584c-3329-4c78-9441-9117defff6e1/content/images/2024/12/e4-foxwizard-shaman-and-wizard-talk-magic_1_1.jpg) ![audio-thumbnail](https://storage.ghost.io/c/bf/97/bf97584c-3329-4c78-9441-9117defff6e1/content/media/2024/12/e4-foxwizard-podcast_thumb.png) e4 // a shaman & a wizard talk magic ⛲︎ 0:00 /6848.705306 1× 🦊 Subscribe and listen on [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/foxwizard/id1645970777?ref=foxwizard.com), [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/show/2hkJuLE5VMED5rvDqnH4RL?ref=foxwizard.com) and [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLeLHJRzrOWo%5FQXluAn65XjHQsoX3IjLvn&ref=foxwizard.com) --- Ahoy friends, this is a fun one! Since I last wrote to you I have recorded two podcast episodes—one on the perilous state of corporate leadership ~~development~~ domestication, and another on how to use rogue skills to detect multipolar traps. Both of these podcasts amounted to about three hours worth of listening. Neither have been published. Why? Because it just didn’t feel right—something was off. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but I am learning to trust these intuitions more. Which brings me to this exquisite conversation with [Simon van der Els](https://www.linkedin.com/in/simon-van-der-els-phd-66434b231/?originalSubdomain=nl&ref=foxwizard.com); a molecular biology PhD turned inner development guide and shamanic healing practitioner. We’ve danced adjacent amidst the sterile landscape of LinkedIn, and I’ve been inspired by how authentically he shows up in the world. We share similar narrative elements, too—academia then metacrisis insight-cascade-into-despair, followed by recovery that opens to living systems and the more-than-rational world (coupled with post-doom sensibilities), etc. I don’t want to oversell the conversation but... there were some really quite special moments amidst. I’m presenting this to you in its raw form, effectively unedited. This is how I personally relish podcast conversations—I want to savour the pauses, appreciate the stumblings and figurings, and to generally experience a conversation that is warm, emergent and real (rather than cool, familiar, and performative). The unedited version of [Krista Tippet’s conversation with Joanna Macy](https://onbeing.org/programs/joanna-macy-a-wild-love-for-the-world/?ref=foxwizard.com) is a prime example of such. Simon is a beacon amidst the liminal web, and his [coaching](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/simon-van-der-els-phd-66434b231%5Foffering-inner-renegeration-for-sprouting-activity-7275825139697500160-AoOL?utm%5Fsource=share&utm%5Fmedium=member%5Fdesktop) is worth considering if, like me, you find yourself desirous of the kind of inner-regeneration and developmental depthwork that isn’t readily available outside of the liminal. Enjoy! --- ### A misleading episode summary (by shoggoth) > In this conversation, Simon van der Els and the foxwizard explore the themes of shamanism, wizardry, and the metacrisis. They discuss the importance of embodiment, intuition, and the dangers of Naming in complex systems. Through their exchange, they highlight the significance of nature, trust, and the role of plant medicine in personal growth and transformation. This conversation delves into the complexities of plant medicine, exploring their chaotic nature and the transformative experiences they can induce. They discuss the importance of context, and the role of ego in shaping these experiences. The dialogue shifts to the concept of entities and egregores, examining how collective intelligence and social dynamics influence our reality. They reflect on the shadows cast by modernity, the need for discernment, and the intentional relationships we can cultivate with plant medicines. **Keywords:** *shamanism, wizardry, metacrisis, embodiment, intuition, naming, complexity, self-discovery, plant medicine, psychedelics, entities, egregores, collective intelligence, modernity, healing, discernment* --- ### Chapters 00:00 An intro from foxwizard 14:16 Embodied Experience and Energetic Healing 17:16 The Role of Naming and Understanding 20:21 The Complexity of Mapping and Abstraction 23:22 The Interrelation of Nature and Self 26:11 The Challenge of Digital Presence and Identity 29:24 The Nature of Consciousness and AI 47:29 Exploring the Nature of Creativity and Intuition 52:32 The Role of Shamanism and Wizardry in Personal Growth 58:22 Navigating Plant Medicine Experiences 01:06:04 The Dangers and Misconceptions of Ayahuasca 01:13:14 Understanding Entities and Egregores in Modern Contexts 01:20:24 Collective Intelligence and the Nature of Money 01:23:22 Navigating Chaos and the Role of Tricksters 01:26:18 Illumination and Shadows in Modern Society 01:29:22 Perception of Reality and the Influence of Entities 01:32:32 Exploring Plant Medicines and Consciousness 01:45:28 Intentionality in Plant Medicine Use 01:51:40 The Nature of Living Conversations --- Remember: you can also [*watch* this episode on YouTube](https://youtu.be/4j20zgB68kQ?ref=foxwizard.com). --- *PS: This is the first episode in which I didn’t painstakingly edit the captions/transcript. I’m hoping I can get away with it, but... let’s see.* 🧡